Have Gun...Will Value! Should Real Estate Professionals Carry Guns?

Having been in the real estate and lending side of business many years ago, this is not a new topic of discussion for real estate professionals since there have been news stories or real estate agents being attached, raped, and even murdered while holding an open house or being called to show a house. We’ve had situations here in my area where alerts go out from the local real estate board about suspicious activity surrounding certain listings and to be very careful. Strange phone calls to show certain rural homes, windows having been propped open by people walking through an open house, or just all around strange behavior by people casing a particular home. We’ve held self defense classes for realtors and special courses for identifying suspicious activity. 

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As appraisers, of course, we find ourselves from time to time in neighborhoods and situations that could be considered potentially risky. One of those situations would simply be doing an observation of a home in a known high crime area or it could simply be doing an observation of a home occupied by someone willing to do harm. One of those situations would have your senses on high alert while the other many have you relaxed and at ease. You’d never know where and when some kind of harm could befall you, although one of those neighborhoods may be considered a higher risk for certain crimes.  
  
I’ve seen conversations online regarding appraisers who have been in potentially hairy situations where the topic of carrying a gun comes up as a viable option for helping that person through that situation unscathed. One of those situations was driving by comps and taking pictures where some hostile individual, or individuals, approaches the vehicle, presumably upset because the appraiser looks like some kind of creeper snapping photos of who knows what. So lets address those scenarios and a few others and see if carrying a gun is the best option for dealing with those particular situations and then also if it’s the best option for just all around self defense.  
  
Before we talk about those things, you’d have to know a little about my background with firearms and training in general so you have an idea of how my paradigms and opinions have been formed on these topics. I’m assuming you already know about my defensive tactics background because I’ve referenced my aikido and zen training in many past episodes. My aikido background, coupled with my experience at my family’s supermarket back in the late 80’s and 90’s, has allowed me a fairly wide view on this topic. My family’s supermarket was located smack dab in the worst part of our city, at least at that point in time. Like many areas in any city, the area has been gentrified and is totally different today. But back then, it was literally the center of all the activity that one would be involved in if you had no care or concern for the law. Our daily customer demographic were pimps, prostitutes, drug dealers, heavy drug users, alcoholics, homeless people, and people from every walk of life on the spectrum. The things we saw, the people we interacted with, and the experiences we had were like a completely different world from the suburbs we drove in from to work the store every day and night. 
  
We had to learn very quickly how to communicate. When I say communicate, I’m not just talking about speaking English or Spanish or some other predominant language in the neighborhood, I mean we had to learn how to communicate in a way that said we meant business. We had to convey that we were part of the neighborhood but were not going to take any shit from anybody trying to steal, rob us, beat us up, deal drugs out of our parking lot, prostitute girls out of the alley, or anything else that would harm the business and potentially get us killed. We had many scary moments in that ghetto grocery that I could spend days recounting but the point in telling you all of this is to explain my real introduction to firearms.  
  
Up to that point in my life I had probably shot a rifle and a handgun maybe a small handful of times. My dad always had some guns in a locked cabinet in the basement but we weren’t a big hunting family so it was never a big thing in our lives. As I mentioned a minute ago, we lived in an average suburb of predominantly white middle class people. I went to schools that always had a decent demographic mix so I grew up with a wide variety of friends from different races. I had Vietnamese, black, Hispanic, Indian, Israeli, and white friends. As I entered middle school and high school the ratios changed drastically so our friend groups expanded even more and race wasn’t really ever a big issue because you always had friends from almost every race, creed, color, nationality and economic background. When we bought the supermarket in this particular part of town we didn’t really think much of of it because, again, race wasn’t an issue in our family. What we encountered, however, was a whole different world that crossed all boundaries or race, creed, color, and nationality. It was simply a demographic that I had never really interacted with and that spoke an almost completely different language. They were speaking English, but they were expressing things in a certain way, and communicating to each other in a way that I hadn’t really experienced up to that point.  
  
It was a very harsh and sobering reality that hit me in the face immediately because these were people that had most obviously been dealing with much more serious and dangerous life circumstances than I had ever experienced. These were people that were at or below the poverty line, living off welfare and food stamps, many of them in and out of prison, lots of run ins with the law, lots of single mothers with kids, lots of single dads trying to support their families any way they could, people who most definitely belonged back in prison but just hadn’t been caught again yet, lots of drug issues, drinking issues, homelessness issues, and the list goes on. To say that I learned a ton about life and communication would be a monumental understatement. We learned very quickly how to ramp up awareness levels to 15, how to handle ourselves physically, how to lay the smack down (so to speak) when it was required, and how justice worked in those kinds or areas. You basically lived and died based on the relationships you built with the people from the neighborhood and the reputation you developed from very heavy handed dealings with people who crossed the line. Although I’ve thankfully never been to prison, I’ve seen enough reality tv shows about to see the correlation between the way we survived in that area and the way people survive in prison. You quickly learn not to back down, not to take any shit, stand up to people when they try to intimidate you, and be willing to take somebody’s head off when they’re threatening to do that to you. 
  
I know, it seems like a vey risky and harsh way to make a living and I realized many years later that it was. I’m very thankful we all made it out of there literally with out lives because it was extremely dangerous. You literally never knew when somebody was going to walk in and just start shooting. And we had shootings. You never knew who was packing, who was going to try to come over the counter to grab the money out of the till, who might be from out of town and not know our reputation and think they could easily rob the place, who was going to try to steal a couple 40oz’ers out of the cooler and test you by just walking out the door, who was going to try to run a money scam on you with 10’s, 20’s and $50 bills, and that list goes on. We learned a lot down at that ghetto grocery and one of the reasons we survived was because we all carried guns. My brother was the youngest person in the state at that point to ever get a concealed weapons permit at 18 and I was the next youngest at 17. I carried a 9mm Ruger P85, my dad carried a smith and Wesson body guard 38, and my brother carried a similar style 38 revolver. 
  
What I can tell you about getting my concealed weapons permit at 17 and working in that environment is that we had to grasp fairly quickly the idea that you may have to actually draw down on somebody and pull the trigger. That forced us to think through the next level which was, what types of scenarios would be worth doing that in and how would they go down potentially. You then would have to kind of war game it in your mind to think through the tactical movements and implications of how you’d do it, what you would do when your adrenaline is pumping heavily, what you’d do if you were in a wrestling match with somebody trying to take the gun from you, and on and on the scenarios and war gaming went and it was a never ending thought process. I joined a local gun range and took some classes. I practiced shooting at targets and then practiced draw and shoot scenarios. I was constantly practicing how I would get the gun out of the holster and on to target quickly and accurately under a variety of scenarios, what I would do in the hundreds of different situations I could find myself and then how I might deal with the aftermath should I have to actually shoot somebody. Keep in mind, I wasn’t a police officer with the responsibility of taking somebody into custody and protect the public, I was a damn grocery store clerk! This was a huge responsibility for a 16-18 year old white kid from the suburbs to all of the sudden have to contemplate what I might do if I’ve been shot and have to defend with a dead arm or if I’m tied up in the back room and worried they're coming back to kill us all after robbing the store. These were all scenarios I’d be war gaming and training on before work and while I had down time behind the counter.  
  
Thankfully, we all left there after about 10 years with a few scars, some bloodied elbows and knees, some scars on our knuckles, a healthy respect for human nature and a healthy respect for firearms. We had many scenarios where weapons were drawn and aimed and luckily we never had to pull the trigger. We had scenarios where people on the other side of the counter had a weapon and thought better than to try to use it. And we saw our share of nasty stuff where other people did lose their lives to violence.  
  
Of course, from there I moved to Chicago to live in the Aikido and zen school and got involved with working with law enforcement and military groups teaching defensive tactics. I got to do ride alongs through some of the toughest housing projects in the world like Cabrini Green and Robert Taylor Homes. I saw even closer up what violence is and does to people, families, and communities and was in even hairier situations there than I was back in the ghetto grocery store. What I learned from all of that training and all of the situations we were in was that carrying a gun carries with it a massive responsibility. While it can most definitely be a valid form of self defense, understanding all of the ramifications that come with carrying and possibly having to use a firearm to defend oneself takes a long time.  
  
What I learned working with law enforcement was something called the use of force continuum which is the spectrum of force that officers are supposed to follow to be within their legal right to use force to contain or end a situation. On the left hand of the spectrum is presence and on the right hand of the spectrum is deadly force. So the spectrum goes from left to right with presence, verbal, physical, chemical, striking, lethal. Meaning, the first level of force for an officer is simply showing up to a call. The next level of force is giving verbal commands, interviewing people at a scene, and using their verbal skills to deescalate when at all possible. The next level is to go hands on or physical. Whether that meant being proactive and placing somebody into custody or having to defend against a physical attack that’s just been launched against them, physical force was gathered next step. After that it was chemical, meaning OC spray (now they’ve added a level called non-lethal which is taser), striking, which meant striking with an ASP baton or some other tool, and then finally, after all other avenues have been exhausted, lethal obviously implied use of their duty weapons to take a life to end the threat.  
  
What is important to understand in that very clinical and sterile explanation is that situations didn’t always follow a nice linear flow from verbal to physical to chemical and so on. It went quite often from presence to a quick verbal yell of ‘drop the weapon’ to immediately going to lethal to end the threat. And it could all happen in a split second. And this is one of the most important things to understand when appraisers and other real estate professionals talk about carrying a gun. The amount of thought, the amount of training, the amount of tactical war gaming of scenarios that one should go through before ever contemplating carrying a gun should be something on the level of what appraisers go through to become state licensed. I say that because I think the idea is often tossed out in a very cavalier fashion as if just acquiring the gun and carrying it in your purse, your car, or on your body is going to be the answer. The type of training that is required simply to know when its appropriate and when its not appropriate to draw a weapon should be enough to knock 95% of people out of the running for carrying.  
  
It doesn’t take a whole lot of training to learn how to use a gun, especially if it’s a revolver. You can go to the shooting range, take an 8 hour concealed carry course, learn how to shoot at non moving targets, and then think you’re ready to go out into the world safer as a result. Knowing what I know about guns, self defense, real life violence, and human nature however, I can promise you that you’re actually in more danger and far more dangerous to yourself and to the public now than you were before getting licensed. What happens when people get their concealed pistol licenses is that they either start to carry and do no more training with the weapon OR they leave the pistol in the lockbox with the expectation that they’d be able to get to it in a highly stressful situation. Those who choose to become dutiful concealed carriers typically carry their shiny new weapon without a round in the chamber and on safety thinking this will afford them a little safety margin in case things go really bad. They assume they’ll have time and also remember to rack the slide and make ready, meaning pull the slide back and rack one into the chamber, making the weapon hot and ready to fire. Of course, since they never practice that maneuver under stress they never knew just how many times a semi automatic weapon misfeeds or misfires so they’d never know how to handle rapidly re-racking the slide to clear the malfunction and get the weapon back on target. Since they’ve never practiced that they’ve likely also never practiced what to do when somebody grabs on to the slide of the gun and tries to wrench if out of your hands. Will a round in the chamber fire if the slide is grabbed, will it not? Will the gun fire if there’s no round in the chamber. The answer to the first question is yes, the gun will still fire even though the slide has been grabbed. However, since the slide has to ram to the rear and then rechamber the next round after discharging the previous round, if somebody is holding the slide, you’re out of luck and out of rounds after the first shot. It’s basically a big paper weight at this point until you can wrestle the weapon free, re-rack the slide, chamber a new round and fire. The answer to the second question is no, the gun will not fire if there is no round in the chamber.  
  
Now these may all sound like unrealistic scenarios but I can assure you that they are not. They are all too common. Sadly, what is also all too common is having a concealed carrier pull their weapon in frustration or fear when in a situation they never anticipated in the hopes that the intimidation factor will force whomever they’re pointing the gun at stop what they’re doing and move away. The huge problem with this tactic is what if the person doesn’t stop doing whatever it was that caused you to pull out your gun in the first place? Do you have the right to shoot the person? Is what they’re doing a threat to your life? Is somebody yelling at you while you’re in your car a reasonable threat to allow you to take their life? Well, that would depend on several factors but what will always be in play of what is called the law of proportionality in self defense. The level of defense applied in a situation has to match the perceived threat level and the opportunity for deescalation and escape would have to have been unavailable to you at the time. Meaning, if you can drive away from the scene to get to safety, that’s what a prudent individual should and would do. To pull out a gun because somebody comes running at your car from their house is not justification for pointing a gun at somebody. Most definitely not justifiable to then shoot them to death. You can try to argue in court that you felt your life was in imminent danger, but the reality is that you have to convince 12 jurors, a judge, and a prosecutor that you had no other options for escape.  
  
So those are a few of the legal, ethical, moral and training aspects to think through when it comes to whether or not you should OR COULD carry a gun while on inspections. Are there enough scenarios you’ve found yourself in that warrant that level of self defense? Those, of course, are questions you have to ask yourself, I certainly cant answer those for you. The last consideration in all of this is whether or not you could handle the aftermath of a shooting situation. In self defense we call this emotional and spiritual fitness. If you found yourself in the unenviable position of having to discharge your weapon in the direction of another human being, you’re doing so for one purpose and one purpose only, and that’s to end their life. It is rule number one of gun safety: never point a gun at something you do not intend to kill. Numbers two through five are: treat all guns as if they are loaded, keep your finger off the trigger until you have sights on target and have decided to kill something, Always know what your target is and what is behind your target, and always keep your guns secured from unauthorized persons. 
  
So you’ve found yourself in a horrible position to have to shoot somebody to save your own life, or so you think, and then defend yourself in court, possibly have all of your life savings and earthly possessions taken from you as a result even if the shooting was justified, and then have to deal with the consequences of taking the life of another human being.  
  
Now, you may be thinking from my tone that I am absolutely against the idea. I’ll say it again, I am not. What I am vehemently against, however, is having you be armed without extensive training, ongoing and continuous, and having spent many, any hours thinking through all of the ramifications and potential repercussions of all the potential scenarios that come with owning and using a gun. One thing we haven’t discussed is the unfortunate scenario of being justified in using your firearm but accidentally also killing an innocent bystander. What if a round goes through or past your intended target and hits the little girl riding her bike on the street? A 9mm round travels at 1700mph, or 2500 feet per second. A mile is 5280 feet which means a 9mm round travels 2 miles per second. They are notorious for traveling through human beings and hitting targets well beyond the initial target. Ok, you say, I’ll get a 22 caliber, or 38 caliber, or 40 caliber, or 45 caliber. Listen folks, it doesn’t matter. The chances of an untrained person hitting their target past 3 to 5 feet is very slim. Once adrenaline hits your blood stream your gross motor ability drops significantly which means your ability to adeptly use your hands for anything other than slapping somebody goes completely out the window. 
  
If you haven’t spent an inordinate amount of time training with the weapon and then doing what’s called stress inoculation training, which is training to shoot under stress with rounds coming back at you, tennis balls being fired at you, instructors pulling you off your stance, somebody wrestling with you while you’re trying to hit a target (all of this is typically done with simunition or airsoft guns), firing from odd positions on the ground, firing from cover and concealment, and a bunch of other things, you are likely to have the weapon stripped and used against you or shoot an innocent person.  
  
As I mentioned, I’ve been licensed to carry concealed since I was 18 years old, which is 30 years now. I’ve been through a fair amount of weapons training with a wide variety of light and heavy weapons, I carry every day almost every where I go. I have a sig sauer p230 semi-auto subcompact in a custom rig hidden under my steering column, I have custom Kydex holsters for all of my glocks and M&P pistols, whichever I choose to carry on that day, they're all carried in the red state, hot and with a round in the chamber, no safety on any of my guns, and they’re all loaded with hydra shock style defense rounds to do maximum damage in minimum time. I say all this simply because it is a normal part of my world, but has been for 30 years. I’ve spent hundreds of hours of training with my weapons, cleaning them, practicing drawing from concealment, I’ve practiced defensive weapon retention techniques and weapon takeaway techniques for hundreds of hours on the mat with unloaded weapons, I’ve done stress inoculation training so that I can shoot under pressure and still keep a cool head, and I lock everything up every night. That’s a ton of work and responsibility that has gone into that aspect of my life. 
  
By the way, if you saw me on the street, you’d never know. I don’t flaunt it, I don’t post stupid shit on social media, I don’t announce my every day carry on instagram, and I always carry concealed. My girlfriend sometimes knows but more often forgets until she puts her arm around me and feels it in my back. My boys, 16 and 18, know that I carry, but never see me holster up before we go out and typically don’t think about it. However, I have had to teach my kids and girlfriend when we go to the mall or somewhere in public that if anything horrible starts to go off, I will show them away from me and for them to get to cover and concealment as far away from me as possible because I will likely become the target of fire since I’ll be shooting back.  
  
These things may sound silly but they are all things one has to think about when considering carrying a gun for personal protection. Does an appraiser need to carry a gun? I don’t know. I do, although I don’t carry into people’s homes when I know they're there. I will only carry on my person in a vacant home and in risky neighborhoods. I also always have a flick style defensive blade on me and I’m pretty good with my hands and feet so I don’t typically worry about too much when it comes to defending myself in any situation when my firearm isn’t on me, but I’ve also had lots of training and real life experience in that regard as well. Those who haven’t, I would strongly suggest taking some self defense classes first before going right to the gun. Learn how to handle yourself physically or, at the very least, learn what you’re not capable of doing without any weapons. This should be the litmus test for whether or not you can reasonable carry a weapon that can kill. That’s not to say that there aren’t scenarios one could point to to say, “see, I should carry a gun!” What I would say to you is that, wherever you live and depending on the local laws, there are likely a handful of women and men like me in every crowd that are going to take some kind of action on your behalf should it be warranted. That’s not the reason not to carry a weapon, but if your reasoning for wanting to carry a weapon is because you heard about some situation, or somebody approached your vehicle while you were snapping comp pics, I’d say absolutely not! If you’re in a car you have a 2-5000 pound weapon and a whole host of escape options.  
  
Hopefully that gives you lots to think about when it comes to appraising with a gun my friends! Thanks for listening to this episode of the Real Value Podcast and I look forward to talking with you again next week. ​